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rigid set up VERSUS flexible set up

Discussion in 'Technical Help' started by yao wei, Nov 17, 2018.

  1. yao wei

    yao wei Spacer

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    creating this thread to have explanation on the trend.
    been wondering why the recent tamiya youtube videos are mostly geared on flexible set up.

    what are the PROS and CONS between the 2?
    Why choose rigid over flexible?
    why choose flexible over rigid?

    hoping to create a healthy discussion,
     
  2. LMBreaker

    LMBreaker Box Kit

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    Am I right, rigid setups are ideal if the track calls for more speed than stability, and flex setups are ideal if the tracks are more technical and require more stability?

    As I've noticed, J-cup tracks and tracks for Tamiya-sponsored events usually involve digital curves, rocking straights and other obstacles that will either slow down rigid setups or destabilize them. Hence the prevalence of flex setups.
     
    S_CASTER and yao wei like this.
  3. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    Here are some of my thoughts regarding the rigid and flexible setup:

    Rigid
    *Pros:
    • can be set easier compared to flexible setup
    • changes that might occur are most likely only due to loose locknut which hold the roller stay or the roller itself
    • less likely to have changes of the front angle
    • passing through a lane changer is easier with a sufficient front angle

    *Cons:
    • not adaptive to many obstacles nowadays such as digital curve, rocking straight
    • it gives more load to the chassis due to the strong impact. So the chassis could be damaged more easily
    • the speed itself was set since the beginning of the setup and can't be altered througout the race (I'll explain about this later on the flexible setup Pros)
    Flexible
    *Pros:
    • adaptive to the different kind of layout (with or without the difficult obstacles such as Digital curve, rocking straight, etc)
    • the speed and how the car will run can be adjusted differently according to your need. For example, if you're using a pivot bumper, you can set a different amount of rubber to be used in the left and the right side of your bumper. So you can adjust the speed when your car is making a right or left turn depending on the layout itself. Another example is when you're using an AT bumper, your car will be running on a minimum default angle and when your car enters the slope the tilted body damper will increase the front angle and will make some adjustment.
    • If it's used correctly, you can push the speed of your car even more to achieve "Air Cornering". Well, I don't know whether this term is appropriate or not (got this term from a friend) but here's the thing, when I'm using a rigid setup, most of the time I will try to land my car prior to the curve piece or right before the curve piece (let's say there's a section which consist of up slope piece followed by 2 straight pieces and then the curve piece).
    If you're using and adaptive or flexible bumper such as Pivot Bumper combined with an Anchor Bumper on the rear side, you can make your car directly hit the wall of the curve piece itself because the bumper will absorb the impact and even if your rear side of the car was left behind, the adaptive movement of the Anchor bumper will make your car re-enter the track". I'm not saying this can't be achieved with a rigid bumper setup, but most likely a car with a rigid bumper setup will got twisted due to the strong impact with the track wall (especially in a wooden 5 lane track which is harder compared to the 3 lane track) unless you make the bumper really strong like stacking them up more than 3mm thick (but it will make your car heavier and got less acceleration).​
    • It will make your car look stylish! LOL
    *Cons
    • Difficult to be made (or at least more complicated than rigid bumper)
    • Most of adaptive bumper requires to be maintained and monitored thoroughly throughout the race since there's a huge possibility to experienced changes here and there. For example, broken rubber in pivot, loose locknut in the pivot arm or in the spring which holds the AT mechanism, an upward angle in AT bumper can definitely make your car flew off even in a regular corner, changes in the locknut that gives pressure to the Anchor bumper, etc. Well if those devices and features were made correctly, it will less likely to cause those changes.
    • More difficult to pass a normal lane changer with long approach since the front angle is usually minimum or could be changed after impact.

    I think both rigid and flexible setup got their own place to be used and it could become an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the user itself. I hope this can answer you question and please keep in mind that all of the explanation was just based on my opinion and it could be wrong

    and sorry for the long reply. I think it's better to be explained with a video. Hehehe. Keep on running!
     
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  4. yao wei

    yao wei Spacer

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    wow, thank you sir roscoe for replying to my thread.
    you didn't just replied, but gave a very helpful explanation as well.
    btw, i always watch your youtube videos.

    "
    • If it's used correctly, you can push the speed of your car even more to achieve "Air Cornering". Well, I don't know whether this term is appropriate or not (got this term from a friend) but here's the thing, when I'm using a rigid setup, most of the time I will try to land my car prior to the curve piece or right before the curve piece (let's say there's a section which consist of up slope piece followed by 2 straight pieces and then the curve piece).
    If you're using and adaptive or flexible bumper such as Pivot Bumper combined with an Anchor Bumper on the rear side, you can make your car directly hit the wall of the curve piece itself because the bumper will absorb the impact and even if your rear side of the car was left behind, the adaptive movement of the Anchor bumper will make your car re-enter the track". I'm not saying this can't be achieved with a rigid bumper setup, but most likely a car with a rigid bumper setup will got twisted due to the strong impact with the track wall (especially in a wooden 5 lane track which is harder compared to the 3 lane track) unless you make the bumper really strong like stacking them up more than 3mm thick (but it will make your car heavier and got less acceleration). ""

    i will keep this point in mind Sir.​
     
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  5. yao wei

    yao wei Spacer

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    thank you, salamat po
     
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  6. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    You're welcome bro. Oh, I found the video that can show you the thing that I've mentioned before. Here it is, go directly to 2:55

     
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  7. Soybi

    Soybi Spacer

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    In my opinion and own experience in 3lanes local racing
    Rigid Setup is best used for speedtech kits that is using high speed motor like ultra dash since most of local racing centers doesnt use rocking straights or digi curves and it is necessary to have rigid setup to avoid flying off track as well specially on change lanes due to the fact that the rigid bumpers will keep the kit down and will not flip over due to the highspeed force unlike using flexible setup which will absorb the highspeed force during changelane making it tilt until it flies off the track. not 100% sure but this is the case most of the time thats why my friend using MS which can fight with single shaft ultradash always fly off track with his flexible setup so he changed it to rigid instead.

    Flexible Setup is best if there are digi curves or rocking straight. Actually for layout that has a lot of waves and curves, I prefer using sliding dampers than flexible setup. because sliding bumpers only moves horizontally and it doesnt bend unlike AT or pivot bumpers. So, if you combine both front and rear sliding bumper setup, it will be very quick on corners and waves. so if you want to be rigid but quick on cornering and wavesm use sliding, and if there are rocking straights or digi curves, use other flexible setup then.
     
    Sera Olo likes this.
  8. ltr74

    ltr74 Aluminum Lock Nut

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    The Lane change problems you mentioned is more due to the position of the motor on the chassis. a front motor car is going to perform better on a traditional lane change because of all the weight concentrated on the front of the chassis helping to keep the front end down and roller angle correct. The MS chassis will have a lighter front end and rise more causing problems with the lane change. This can be adjusted for with a more adaptive front roller and body damper design.

    I run pivot or sliding damper front on all my cars regardless of the track obstacles. This allows me to jump into the corner instead of landing before the curve and have had good performance from the car through regular curves and flat parts of the track. If there is no digital turn or other obstacle, I run a stiffer setup, but never go fully rigid. I will take the small reduction of cornering speed for better landing on short recovery areas
     
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  9. yao wei

    yao wei Spacer

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    your FL system video is very informative too Sir
     
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