1. Welcome to the North American Tamiya Mini 4WD Forum ! Get in and get involved, post today!
    Dismiss Notice

Breaking in Tamiya Tuned Motor

Discussion in 'Tools/Batteries/Chargers' started by Alex Soon, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    I am aware of battery break in, motor break in and even car break in.

    For motor break in, i understand its all about the metal bushing.....to remove all the dust/dirt/grease etc from the metal bushing such that the metal bushing is in 100% contact with the rotatory motor. Now, what i don't understand is......why do you need like a specific voltage to break in the motor? It sounds to me more like a cleaning job than an electrical one.

    For me, i am using the attached tool to break in motor by running the motor in forward 6min motion and backward 6 mins motion for 3 rounds then followed by applying motor oil to the motor after cool-down and then spray lubricant to give it a thorough wash-up.

    Do you all recommend using rechargeable batteries or alkaline batteries to break in tuned tamiya motor? Any real advantage in purchasing and using that GForce Mini Motor break-in system over doing it the way i do now

    Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Oct 29, 2020
  2. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Dust

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    You are mainly breaking in the brushes. From the factory they are flat and the commutator where they provide power is curved. You want the brushes curved as well so they transmit power the best to the motor.

    You do not want the motor to heat up. Heat will weaken the magnets which will reduce torque. lower voltage generates less heat but takes longer. higher voltage does it faster but more heat and potential damage to magnets. People use different voltages at different times because they believe that is the best to maintain magnet strength while breaking in the brushes.

    In your case, 6 minutes at about 3 volts is going to generate quite a bit of heat. If you are going to do the hook up to batteries style of break in, cut it down to 1 minute each cycle and give plenty of time to cool between each time round. The total length of time is good, just too long for each session. It will take a long time but worth it. I literally take all day to break in 1 motor between running and cooling session with both low and high voltage.

    I have had bad luck with 3 GForce break in systems being horribly broken after purchasing new. I ended up with a scientific quality DC power supply. it's not as portable as the GForce but it's much more accurate in voltage.
     
  3. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    You heard of N52 grade of magnet? I purchased 2 pieces and attached them to the Sprint Dash motor in the attached picture. Will be testing this weekend whether it helps boast any torque WHILE keeping the speed.

    The magnet is really strong. Got my finger clapped in-between these 2 bar when unwrapping.
     

    Attached Files:

  4. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Dust

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Generally strange magnets means more torque and lower RPM. Without a gauss meter and tachometer it's hard to say for sure what the changes will be. But this is similar to what we do for kits box stock motors here in the US. We store each motor between two power dash motors while not in use. This increases the magnetic field of the stock motor giving it more torque of which the stock motor normally has very little.
     
    Alex Soon likes this.
  5. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    I tested the Sprint Dash motor after putting it with the magnet for 24 hours. The rpm got to 34,000rpm.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    I tested it again with 4 Neo Champ battery each at 1.35v and the result is astonishing at 41,000 rpm ++
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    Is regulated voltage crucial to breaking in motor? I been using the batteries hook-up method which i have no control over the voltage.
     
  8. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Dust

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    It's best to be able to set the voltage to a constant rate. It will give more consistent results and allow more variation.
     
  9. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
  10. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Dust

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Looks interesting. We don't have as much access to the specialized electronics for mini4wd. We have great machining tools and have sources for specialized tools from Japan, but electronics are much harder. Even geforce break in systems are not imported.
     
  11. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    I want to know if all those talk about breaking-in of tuned Tamiya mini 4wd motor is really what enabled some racers to race at ultra speed. I mean at insane break-neck speed of 40,000rpm++ with just two 1.5v AA batteries max. I know those 1.2v rechargeable batteries can get charged up till 1.55-1.58v which propel additional speed......but those don't last as speed slow back down very quickly as the voltage falls back down very fast.

    For past few days while waiting for the voltage regulator to arrive, I had read up extensively both within and outside the Tamiya arena on brushed motor, but conclusion is that breaking in of DC motor is all about making that carbon brush 'stick closer' to the communicator. Somehow don't think making the carbon brush 'stick closer' will make a Mash Dash motor runs @40,000rpm++

    The only case i witness upfront speed of 40,000rpm++ is when i power up a Sprint Dash motor with 4 fully charged Neo Champ rechargeable batteries of around 1.55v each.
     
  12. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Dust

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    If I see a mach dash claimed to be running at 40k rpm, I suspect something is not right. There are two possibilities that I know of, first the voltage is much higher than they are saying or thinking. The geforce break in machines are notorious for supplying incorrect voltage. Even ones that appear to be accurate can be 1 volt or more off of what they say. Second, the break in process has created so much heat that the magnets have lost much of their magnetic field allowing for the higher rpm. I've broken in a box stock moron and pushed it to 19,000 rpm but the magnets were trashed so it was pretty slow on the track.

    I would not believe any of the numbers people throw around for their motors, RPM is not the end all stat for a motor.

    30 to 31k for a hyper dash and 35-36k for a mach dash while also preserving the magnets is the best I have managed at 3 volts. In the US, I am considered really fast. In Japan I am competitive and never really worry that my motors are not fast enough. This month will be interesting, Roscoe has organized a world challenge featuring racers around the world running on the same track layout with the same rules. The track is quite fast so we will see how everyone compares.
     
    Alex Soon and Roscoe_tm10 like this.
  13. Alex Soon

    Alex Soon Spacer

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2020
    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Singapore
    Thanks Itr74. What you wrote had cleared a lot of my doubt regarding the existence of super exceptional motor running 40k rpm at 3v. (not counting UD/PD motors)

    I am beginning to realise the other non-rpm factors as i played around the motor more. I noticed some of them spin in shaky manner while some are very smooth without much noise and faster. I am attributing it to lack of oiling and/or the brushes had turn bad for the one which spin in shaky manner. Vibrating vigoroulsy is a better description i guess.
     
  14. ltr74

    ltr74 FRP Dust

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    354
    Likes Received:
    221
    Location:
    Fukuoka, Japan
    Yeah, there is a lot more to motors than just rpm. There is a lot of variation in production quality of the motors. They are all built by machines and the tightness of the wire wraps and other variables within the motor can change performance. The magnets are also mass produced then installed randomly in the motor so strength can vary from side to side impacting performance. The top racers will often buy boxes of motors(12 in a box) because generally you will get one very good motor in a box. Then they just break in every motor and keep the best motor for important races. Us normal racers can still get good motors by just breaking in a few at a time, noting the rpm and keeping track of the performance.

    When you spin a motor by hand, the shakiness generally means the magnets are stronger and the motor should have more torque. A free spinning motor has weak magnets and probably higher rpm.

    I there is more vibration when running powered, it is either the armature of the motor is a little out of balance or magnets have greater difference in strength from side to side. Less vibration is better.

    One thing that we do know is that breaking in a motor allows the brushes to contour better to the commutator. The better they are seated the faster the motor should be since it has better contact. It also causes motors that are close to the end of their lifespan to spin faster.
     
    Ezra&Danny likes this.

Share This Page

Top