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Basic Stuff about Tires

Discussion in 'Beginner's Corner' started by Roscoe_tm10, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    Soft - Normal - Hard - Super Hard - Low Friction

    Confused with so many different types of tires? Maybe this post might help you when choosing your tires. So basically each tire has its own characteristic along with their advantages and disadvantages. I'll try to explain it as as simple as possible. I got this explanation from various Mini 4WD TV shows, guides & magazines (old and new), some explanation from MC Guts, Mini 4WD Fighter, etc.

    Let's start!


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    Soft tires
    Soft tires have the best grip compared to the other type. It has the best acceleration due to its grip to the track surface. When you're using soft tires, you'll notice your car will "Dash!" once you put it on the track. Another example is when your car lands from a jump, it will build up the speed really fast. But because the grip is really good, it means that this type of tire will produce lots of friction with the track surface. So this Soft type might slows your car down on the cornering process. (This Soft tires have clear colored appearance and Japanese racer usually called them "Silicone Tire")

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    Super Hard tires
    The opposite of Soft tires. This Super Hard type has the worst grip with the track surface. It needs more time and distance to build up its speed. But the advantage from this type is your car will gradually become faster and faster as the race progress. Because of its poor grip (which means less friction with the track surface) this Super Hard type will speed up the cornering process.


    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    As for the Normal and Hard type, their characteristic is between Soft and Super Hard.

    You can try this simple experiment: install your car with Soft type tires and slide them from side to side.
    (Or you can try and install Normal type tires, because most of the car kit provide this type of tire)
    Now, install your car with Super Hard type tires and slide them from side to side.

    Notice any difference? Theoretically, you will feel more resistance with the Soft Type compared to the Super Hard type. This process is similar when your car's moving around a corner. When your car entered a corner, the rollers will make contact with the track wall and it will change the direction of the car, and at the same time your car will "slide" to the new direction.

    Now at this point the characteristic of your tires will determine how fast your car will "slide" from the first to the new direction after the contact with the track wall. The smaller friction created by the tires and the track surface, the faster it gets around the corner.


    [​IMG]

    As for the Low Friction type, I think the characteristic is similar to Super Hard type. It is also described on the leaflet inside the package that this Low Friction type will speed up your car around the corner. After a couple of observation, I think the low friction tires got less friction compared to the super hard tires. Not 100% sure about that, but it's just based on my observation on the cornering process.

    So which type is the best? The answer is... I don't know..

    As I've told you before, each tire has its own advantages and disadvantages. So you're the one who needs to choose which type is the best for you according to your play style and preferences. As for me, I'm using the super hard tires both in the front and the rear side.

    Note: If there is no specific info on the package of some parts about the type of tire (for example soft, hard or super hard or low friction), then that tire is the normal type.

    Some of you might've seen this post on Fb. You can watch the full videos about tires basic knowledge on my channel:


    Hope this will be useful. Since this is my 1st thread in this forum, I hope anyone can tell me if I've made some mistake in this thread. Thanks!
     
  2. Corweena

    Corweena Spacer

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    Great thread full of solid info.


    One thing to note on "hard" tires. Not all of them are the same. Most kits that come with colored tires (regardless of wheel size), those tires will be "hard" compound. But depending on the color, they may have slightly different variations of hardness. For example, the gray tires on the Hong Kong Taxis are a bit harder than the traditional colored tires like violet, light blue, white, red, etc.

    The biggest one we recently noticed however is the new low profile carbon y-spoke wheels with the silver "hard" tires. Even though the tires are listed as hard, if you feel them, they are actually similar in stiffness with Super Hard tires. BUT when looking closer at the compound, its actually very glossy and smooth compared to other hard tires, closer to Low friction ones. So while they may be listed as hard, looking at them and feeling them it almost feels like a cross between super hard and low friction tires. I've been using them recently, and they are good. Like most harder tires, they don't have the best grip from the start, but once the car gets going they do a great job maintaining speed. The absorb bounce closer to the super hards as well too, from what I've seen. Not sure if the silver tires are that way because of the pigment used (kind of like how some chassis colors are stronger/smoother than others), or what it is, but whatever the reason I really like them.

    Once we get a high speed track set up I'll probably try and get a car going and try a all of the different tire compounds I have, to see which is fastest, and how the different colors slot in the rankings.
     
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  3. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    Yes, I totally agree with you. Somehow, different color got different level of friction. Previously, I used red hard tires and I felt that the friction is too much and it kinda held my car's speed around the corner.
    Now I'm more into super hard and gonna try the low friction. I got beaten up so many times with my friends who were using low friction. The cornering speed was crazy! (I'm so obsessed with high speed cornering and I tend to neglect other stuff. LOL)

    Thanks!
     
  4. Joeyxl

    Joeyxl Screw

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    great info. thanks @Roscoe_tm10. going to the track tonight to practice before the big race tommrow and i now have a bunch of kits with different tires. id like to see the difference myself and should give me some personal insight on the matter.
     
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  5. Roscoe_tm10

    Roscoe_tm10 Spacer

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    Great! I think by doing the observation by yourself will most likely give you some insight. Try to use the same car, same battery voltage and same setup with different tires. Eventually you can see the difference between them. Good luck!
     
  6. David S.

    David S. Washer

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    So, out of interest, where do arched tyres fit into the equation? I believe they are always a hard compound and presumably, with so little surface area in contact with the track, they'd ensure very fast cornering due to low friction. I guess that same low friction would mean they'd be great for maintainig high speed once you'd built up that high speed, but perhaps slower to accelerate, again, due to the low grip. Is that right?

    I don't see them used on many cars though - presumably due to higher centre of gravity?

    Has Tamiya ever released hard arched tyres for the small diameter wheels of the fully cowled series? Wouldn't that make for a good three-way compromise between low friction fast cornering/high top-end speed, fast acceleration (due to small diameter if not grip) and low centre of gravity?

    And, finally, might there be any merit in combining arched and regular tyres on the same car? Or even different diameter tyres (e.g. a large pair at the back combined with a medium pair out front)? Just thinking if that helps the 'angle of attack' of the car into jumps - or maybe just creates more problems than it solves...!

    Either way, thanks for the very informative original post, Roscoe.
     
  7. Corweena

    Corweena Spacer

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    We only use the arched tires for high speed racing. Most of them are hard compound (the colored ones), but if you get black ones they are the standard slick compound. There even used to be a Super Hard version Tamiya released years back, which are super rare now. And later this year, they will be releasing a low friction arched tire, which will probably be the new high speed tire of choice.

    And we don't use them for technical racing for the reason you mentioned, high center of gravity because of the larger size, and the fact because they are arched the center is very thick meaning they bounce a LOT. Also, because of their larger diameter, you'd need to run a much higher gear ratio to keep any sort of decent acceleration, which effectively negates any top speed advantage you might have with the larger wheels, while making the car less stable. There never was a smaller diameter arched tire per say....the closest is #15415 (small diameter carbon wheel set), its an even smaller wheel than the medium or low profile ones we have on kits now. I think they originally came on some Super X kits. The tires aren't completely flat like the medium diameter ones, but don't have much of an arch either, at least enough to make a difference.

    And you definitely don't want to run mismatched tire diameters front and rear....definitely creates more issues than it would solve. Mixing compounds of the same style tire is one thing, but completely different setups is another.


    In open class racing, we will use pretty much any kind of tire....because trimming is allowed, and the fact cars are more stable with body dampers, etc...tire compound plays a bit less of an issue. You'll see a lot of people run 2 different tire compounds on the same wheel......most of the time its super hard tires paired with maroon low friction, or maybe some colored hard tires to match paint scheme. Because they are stretched on larger wheels and trimmed down to a certain diameter (normally in the 26mm range), the bounce is greatly reduced regardless of the actual compound of the tires. Depending on what you want, there are different styles you'll find trimmed tires in....flat all the way across for more grip, half of the tire trimmed to be slightly smaller for less grip/friction (offset tread), etc. You'll see them set up with different pairs and orientations depending on the chassis (rear motor, mid, front motor), and the track setup (flat with higher speed, or lots of banks or hills). Its just another area of tuning you can do on open class racing.
     
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  8. David S.

    David S. Washer

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    Thanks Corweena: that's super-helpful detail, especially on the multi-compound 'composite' tyres: I've always wondered quite what advantage that gave. Thanks for taking the time to share such great knowledge.
     
  9. yao wei

    yao wei Spacer

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    i have found this video by sanchu des

    which you can reduce the size of large diamter hard tires.
    did anyone tried this already?
    and if so, would this work on super hard tires as well?
    because i have aproblem with my large diameter super hard tires (95374),
    they doesn't fit well to my carbon 5spoke large diameter wheels (VS Evo parts)
    anyone can give me alternatives or other solutions?
    appreciate all the help
    thank you so much
     
  10. PastorJack

    PastorJack Box Kit

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    What Tamiya sells as Large Diameter Low Profile tires are actually "XL" for 6 spoke and dish type wheels found on the Razorback, DCR-01 Purple, Avante Mk 2 Pink, and Aero Thundershot Asia Challenge 2016 kits to name a few. What we usually do here in the Philippines is just use medium tires on the large wheels.
     
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  11. yao wei

    yao wei Spacer

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    for the sake of everyone interested in shrinking tires, the answer is already given in this video.
    just recently t-hiroki uploaded this. and he used parts cleaner to shrink super hard tires
    skip to 6:16 if you want to watch directly how to shrink tires
     

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